After weeks of neighborhood backlash, the 283 homeless individuals residing at The Lucerne will be relocated to alternate shelters by the end of the month.
JUNE 2021: COURT RULES TO SHUT DOWN LUCERNE HOTEL HOMELESS SHELTER
A statement from attorney Randy Mastro, who is representing the West Side Community Organization, states that the city confirmed that “all of these individuals” will be moved “into state-accredited shelter facilities with the social services they need on-site.”
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This news comes after the newly formed organization had Mastro reach out to the Mayor’s office and, in late August, threaten to file a lawsuit if the city did not come up with a relocation plan.
Isaac McGinn, a spokesman for the Department of Social Services, stated that “As part of our effort to continually review and streamline the footprint of our shelter locations, while always ensuring effective provision of services, we’re beginning to relocate individuals from several commercial hotel locations.”
The city’s decision to relocate these homeless residents from The Lucerne has been met with mixed reactions.
In recent weeks, a number of residents have witnessed and documented incidents including open drug use, public urination and harassment, with the goal of bringing a declining quality of life to the attention of our local leadership. For them, and for anyone who has been concerned about their safety since the influx of new homeless residents on the Upper West Side, the announcement of the Lucerne residents’ relocation will be a positive.
But others have been critical of the city’s decision.
This includes Council Member Helen Rosenthal, who tweeted “It’s a sad day when the threat of lawsuit gets city hall to reverse a decision. What message does this send that groups who can afford to hire high-powered lawyers (are) the ones who will get their way.”
As of writing, the West Side Community Organization has raised over $135,000 through a GoFundMe campaign it launched in mid-August.
UWS Open Hearts, a recently formed group which has welcomed new residents with events including an art protest and sleep out at The Lucerne, tweeted “If the city is indeed making this decision based on pressure from the WSCO, it is an outrageous dereliction of the duty to protect vulnerable NYers. We’ll wait to hear what @NYCMayor has to say. The idea that services will in any way be better in another location is false.”
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But the conclusion of Mastro’s letter indicates that his work, and the work of the West Side Community Organization, has been designed to benefit all NYC residents (even though some would disagree). The sentiment behind this is the belief that the UWS hotels are not providing adequate services.
In a recent response letter from the Department of Homeless Services, the agency stated that while some services are offered onsite, others – including primary healthcare, health / mental health services and substance use treatment – are provided offsite, at locations outside of the hotels.
Mastro’s letter wraps up by stating that “All New Yorkers deserve to feel safe on the streets of their neighborhoods. But we as New Yorkers also care about our neighbors, particularly those in need. We are all in this together. So, we should all be concerned about what happened here and make sure it never happens again.”
Read Mastro’s full statement here
I can only wonder what will happen when those behind this see that the problems will remain, and that it was never the “hotel homeless” at all, but the street homeless. When the urination, defecation, lewdness, etc. continue to occur even after all the “hotel homeless” are gone, what then? Who will they blame?
Will there be any apologies? Even any recognition of error? Nope. Because some people simply WANT or NEED a scapegoat for their fears and concerns, and it was far easier to blame the hotel homeless – an easy target – than to blame those actually responsible for most or all of the things being complained about. The demonization and scapegoating of the hotel homeless will not be acknowledged by them.
Frankly, I would rather have 283 homeless people than 283 UWSers who engage in unwarranted vilification and scapegoating. Despicable, inhumane, contemptible, reprehensible – I cannot come up with enough terms to describe some of my “neighbors.” I would say “shame on you,” but you have no shame. How sad – and frightening. I am more scared of them than I ever was of the homeless.
Amen. Such evil neighbors I wish I hadn’t known about.
OMG it’s Alterman again with his stupid self-serving line of bullshit. You and your stupid mono maniacal insistence that none of the hell that came to the neighborhood during the tenure of your darlings in these hotels was as a result of their presence. Tell me, before your darlings came, did the foul conditions that were described and witnessed every day exist to anywhere near the extent that they did after their arrival? Well, then there’s no reason to believe, for a moment, that the conditions should exist, to that extent, after these people leave. You try to position yourself as one of infinite sympathy and empathy, but where is your sympathy and empathy for the people who have built this neighborhood and who wish to feel safe and secure, when they go to school, work, the park, etc. Are they humans? And mind you, these neighborhood concerns have NOTHING, NOTHING to do with income level. There are a tremendous number of law abiding neighbors who are not “people of means” and who wants to preserve the integrity of their neighborhood. Does your contempt extend to them too? Or do you simply have high income derangement syndrome? Do only your darlings count as humans? As I said before there are a great many homeless FAMILIES who could have used lodging in these hotels. I am certain that these FAMILIES would been accepted here with open arms. BUT, THE SHIT FOR BRAINS MAYOR DECIDES TO PLACE A CONTINGENT OF THE MOST MENTALLY UNSTABLE, SOCIALLY INAPPROPRIATE, AND DOWNRIGHT VIOLENT MEMBERS OF THE SHELTER COMMUNITY IN OUR MIDST. Again I will say: PROPERLY VETTED FAMILIES WOULD HAVE BEEN WELCOMED TO THESE HOTELS.
As for you, you seem to be very anxious about what will happen without your darlings here. I have a suggestion for you: LEAVE. I await your next installation of insults toward me, and words of self-aggrandization about yourself. And in conclusion, I will provide you with a bit of food for thought, as you are figuring out your next barrage of insults toward me:. I will not tell you what I do, but I have done, and I continue to do, more for The human condition than you will ever do.
Mook:
“Tell me, before your darlings came, did the foul conditions that were described and witnessed every day exist to anywhere near the extent that they did after their arrival?”
Actually, had you been paying attention, they did. And as I noted, it is because two things happened almost simultaneously; the MTA closed the subways, causing all of the homeless who lived down there to come to the surface, thus doubling the number of street homeless all over, including the UWS; and the “hotel homeless” were moved in. There things occurred at the same time. So the conditions ARE likely to remain if the homeless at the hotels are removed.
But you and your ilk could not see the conflation of these two things, and chose the easier scapegoat.
“As for you, you seem to be very anxious about what will happen without your darlings here. I have a suggestion for you: LEAVE.”
I could say the same thing to you: if you don’t like the temporary placement of homeless people on the UWS, then maybe YOU should leave; after all, I am not the one who is bothered by it.
“And mind you, these neighborhood concerns have NOTHING, NOTHING to do with income level. There are a tremendous number of law abiding neighbors who are not “people of means” and who wants to preserve the integrity of their neighborhood. Does your contempt extend to them too?”
First, Ill give you $100 for every person NOT “of means” who is protesting the placement of the homeless in the hotels. It very much IS about income and privilege and entitlement, all your protestation to the contrary notwithstanding.
And my contempt extends to anyone who considers property values or temporary “hits” to their quality of life more important than saving lives.
And feel free to heap on the opprobrium; as they say, “sticks and stones…”
I’m not a person of means. Ao you oqe Mook $100
Brian:
Sorry if I don’t take your word for it. What is your total household income?
Well I hope you are truly willing to stand by your word Ian. I am a woman of not great means living on the upper West Side in the 80’s and I agree with the decision to relocated the homeless people that have been placed in this neighborhood. I’ve noticed a rise in the homeless population here who openly use drugs and are mentally unstable. Sunday evening i was coming home from visit family with my mother, we got off at 96st station. I said I’ll walk home but my mother didn’t want to so I told her to take the 1 train down, she trailed behind me walking to the staircase so she could crossover to the downtown side. So as we walked further down the station platform a homeless man took note of me, he didn’t realize my mother was trailing right behind me. The man had crazed look in his eyes and started following behind me. Luckily my mother noticed and caught up with me when I was exiting the station and going up the stairs to the street level, the man was right behind her still following me so I said loud enough so he could hear to my mother “oh you decided to walk with me”. Thankfully in hearing that the guy backed off while muttering “nice ass”. If my mother wasn’t around who knows what could of happened. Why I love living on the Upper West Side is because i always feel safe no matter what time I come home. With this relocation of the homeless to this area it is affecting our safety and well being, many of these people are sex offenders and quite frankly I don’t want them here. So hope you can put your money where you mouth is, I’ll gladly take that 100$.
Misha:
i am sorry to hear about all that. But what has that got to do with the hotel homeless? It sounds like all of that was “street” homeless, particularly since it was not near any of the three hotels.
And actually, you proved my point. (Thank you.) People are blaming and scapegoating the “hotel homeless” when it is actually the increase in STREET homeless that is causing most of the problem.
So I owe nothing to anyone, since the subject was the hotel homeless.
Ian the people are not bound to one specific location, they wonder around the Upper West Side. So that man very well could be a resident of one of the several hotels that homeless people have been relocated to. I have lived here in the Upper West Side my entire life, that’s 29 years and never have I had a problem with being followed. They hit the streets to panhandle and use drugs. So the “STREET” homeless are one in the same as the hotel homeless. Honestly Ian if you are so concerned about the homeless plight why not take it upon yourself to use that money you offered to prove your point and use that to find housing for these people or why not take one person into your home? But I doubt you’ll do that because this isn’t about actually helping it’s about you trying to feel morally superior. I’m all for helping those in need hence why I volunteer at the wildlife rehabilitation center, so please if you actually care about these people do something to help them. Get off this forum and talking about it, just go be about it.
Micha:
“So the “STREET” homeless are one in the same as the hotel homeless. No they are not, and this just shows hoe woefully And possibly willfully) ignorant you are.
And if I feel ‘morally superior” (which I do not, it is because, unlike you, I HAVE actually been DOING things to help the homeless. AS an ordained minister, I spent 12 years working with the street homeless day after day, offering everything from simple support and encouragement to food and money, to helping them get IDs, to helping them get into permanent housing.
I have also been involved in several homeless organizations for over 20 years.
So I DO know a little something about the homeless, particularly on the UWS.
What have YOU done?!
It’s *Misha first and foremost. Secondly it’s not ignorant to say some of the homeless that are on our wondering the Upper West Side streets are from the relocation. It’s ignorant to think they all are just “street” homeless. Good you’re actually trying to help I’m genuinely happy to hear that. However could be a better help if you stop going back and forth with people on this forum and spend that time finding proper placement for all the “street” homeless. Thirdly I never claimed to be making an effort to help the homeless. My plight it with animal welfare and environmentalism which I spent a lot of time volunteering at shelters and rehabilitation centers, going to protest and working with organizations to spread awareness and also traveling to Australia and through East Asia to work hands on with endangered animals. As a man of the church you shouldn’t be wasting precious time and energy arguing over semantics.
It sounds like you’re the one trying to make yourself sound grand. You’ve done so much for the human condition, huh? Let’s get you a trophy. And “hell” came to our precious neighborhood with the influx of the homeless men? Give me a break. I live between the Lucerne and Belleclaire and sure, there are more homeless on the street since they can’t be in subways anymore, but you act as if every other block has a display of masturbation, needles or assaults. Not so. I have been here over 20 years and like most city-dwellers, I realize I don’t live in the pristine suburbs. And my kids are FINE walking around as well. You know what we feel about the homeless more than fear? Empathy. That’s how the UWS used to be, and how sad that every day reveals more selfish people who only care that they don’t have to see others’ misery. I highly doubt you would have welcomed the homeless if they had been families instead of single men. They like to be outdoors, too, you know. Then you might have had to witness women and children’s anger, despair, and unkempt appearance. When you asked who cared about the “strife” of residents (who are also human!), it was like the bully in the schoolyard yelling at his buddies for not helping him beat up the nerd. No one feels his pain! Can’t they all see how his knuckles are chafed? Poor bully.
This is perfect.
Oh, and how can I forget to mention the bombardment of insults toward members of the Upper West Side community that comes out of the trap of this ordained alleged human named Ian Alterman? Well that is certainly something that someone of the cloth would do: relentlessly insult the local gentry, and try not even for a moment to understand their strife. If you are so fucking scared of the people in your neighborhood, who wish to be safe and secure in that neighborhood, then leave. Move into a shelter with your darlings. Your Manomaniacally one-sided sympathies, your insults, your immense arrogance as you second-guess people and correct their grammar, is more than anyone needs to know, in order to figure out everything there is to know about you. I earnestly await your next broadside of bullshit.
I have no shame in contributing to or supporting the West Side Community Organization. How dare anyone vilify their neighbors for wanting to keep our community clean and safe for our families. Forgive me for not wanting my six year child to drag her sneaker laces through a puddle of urine or vomit while walking down the sidewalk.
Yes, homelessness is a problem. It is not suddenly this neighborhood’s problem.
As some have mentioned before, defecating or shooting up in the street have little to do with being unemployed or displaced. A clean pair of socks, a cupcake and a “Welcome” sign scribbled in chalk on the sidewalk do nothing to remedy this.
MOOK Pseudonym, I’d like to buy you a drink. Cheers.
Privileged: “I have no shame in contributing to or supporting the West Side Community Organization. How dare anyone vilify their neighbors for wanting to keep our community clean and safe for our families.”
But it’s okay to vilify other people, most of whom have nothing to do with the issues being described on these boards? Your hypocrisy is staggering.
“Yes, homelessness is a problem. It is not suddenly this neighborhood’s problem.”
Homelessness is EVERYONE’S problem, and thus needs to be shared, and worked on, equally.
“A clean pair of socks, a cupcake and a “Welcome” sign scribbled in chalk on the sidewalk do nothing to remedy this.”
Maybe not. Bu what are YOU doing? NOTHING. So you have some gall to be putting down people who at least care enough to actually DO something. And by the way, it is NOT simply chalk drawing, cupcakes and socks. We have done massive supply drives, including a variety of items, including housewarming gifts for those who have actually been housed since the situation began. We started, and paid for, a resume-writing course for those looking for jobs, and we have done several others things. So I ask again: what are YOU doing, other than complaining?
You gave them $5 gift cards to Walgreens to buy beer. LMAO! Good going Enabler
Possibly the single lamest thing I’ve ever read here. You win.
Please don’t move them to other neighborhoods with families and children and then let them deal with the consequences of having to explain druggies masturbating in public. Help the homeless with rehabilitation, education, job placement, mental and physical medical aid. Just moving them from place to play without solving the problem isn’t resolving the issue for either them or for families in the neighborhoods they’re moved to.
The real issue is of course, how did this administration allow the homeless condition in this city to grow to the extent that it had without actually providing the services, needed for this population. Then hits Corona-19 with an already overwhelming homeless population. The blame goes straight to DeBlasio and his incompetence.
He talks a big talk but in actuality, execution is poor and inadaquate
We are ever so close to Comrade de Blasio’s utopia — one big messy violent ghetto for all. But careful, once he leaves office in 16 months (if NYC can survive for that long under his omnipotent incompetence), there will just be another indoctrinated leftist wackadoodle waiting in the wings to destroy NYC. Vote these Democrats out ASAP!
Amen! Scott Stringer just announced his candidacy. He’s another Dem that will continue De Blasio’s agenda.
I know Giuliani does not have many fans, but he worked miracles for NYC.
He made the city a place tourists returned to with their families. NYC needs a strong, no nonsense leader.
Ilovetheupperwest.com launched as a somewhat interesting neighborhood blog, clearly skewed toward real estate but including a few charming archival features and some useful news about local openings and closings. It was worth a quick read. In recent editions it has deteriorated markedly, with pop-up ads, that damned InfoLink thing repeatedly covering content and switching readers to sites they did not ask to see and — worst of all — the lack of comment moderation by the editors. Today’s back-and-forth about the Lucerne includes a spew of vomitous name-calling and disgraceful personal attacks that don’t belong in a neighborhood blog. It’s not interesting and it’s lousy journalism. There are plenty of Upper West Side blogs that are varied, well-written, well-moderated, and free of clickbait. I’ll stick with those, thank you.
I love the upper west side blog is in fact the only true honest journalistic publication left in this neighborhood. They are the only publication that is unbiased & allows for free speech. Unlike that other pseudo neighborhood publication the “Left” Side Rag which is the single most skewed & biased & agenda driven hypocritical publication imaginable. Keep up the good work I Love the upper west side.
You likely have malware on your device. causing the redirects. I hope you dod not pick it up here-I just had my computer cleaned and protected to eliminate the same problems. At least you can do something about that issue. As to the homeless- different story. Yes they are deserving of assistance, empathy and compassion by way of their humanity, but no, they do not deserve to be lawlessly and insanely fouling the neighborhoods others have worked to create. No one does. Clean socks, a resume, and a cupcake do not cure the mental illness at the root of their problems. Anyone remember Billy Boggs? Thirty+ years ago, Joyce Brown, ( her real name) the cursing at passers-by homeless woman was taken off the streets and given a wardrobe, an apartment, television appearances (Donahue, 60 Minutes), a speaking engagement at Harvard, and a job. Today, after drug arrests and more street incidents she is in a group home and described as drifting between sanity and insanity. Most shelter residents are not simply sympathetic victims of hard times, able to function if only they could get a leg-up. Most are severely mentally ill and should be in supervised situations. Their limited resources are not due to lack of material goods or social privileges, but to mental illness and/or drug addiction. A psychiatrist related to Boggs/Brown’s case, noting she is staying out of trouble and off the street remarked “Isn’t that what her case was all about?” If these hotel conversions kept the residents “out of trouble and off the streets”, I, for one, would not be complaining.
The problem with homelessness remains the failure of the City Leaders including the Mayor and Hellen Rosenthal to do anything to really solve the homelessness problem. They spend hours making sure that developers and billionaires get their zoning changes, their tax abatements and other public asset giveaways but they fail to do the real work to clean up the streets and place the homeless not in warehouses but in homes. As usual the leaders have decided that residents who speak up must be smeared as racists and. NIMNBY. It’s easier that way because then you can spend all of your time smearing residents rather than doing your job.
You people are so horrid.
There continues to be a significant number of homeless, etc., around the W. 72nd street subway station, begging, screaming, or sleeping in the area. Sort of like back in the 70s. While I feel sorry for them, I really feel uncomfortable walking around “my area” these days. Time to get them treated better somewhere where they can get appropriate care.
And now UWS liberals can hang themselves across this hotel in peaceful protest.Not UWS residents as De Blasio,Cuomo invited ti join.
For those who opposed the relocation and with big heart, i would suggest to place the homeless permanently at their own apartments/ houses. Showing them supports by sleeping outside the hotel is just a short term solution, adopt them as if they are your own family members will solve the problem.
The Upper West Side Organization causes me shame when call myself an Upper West Sider. I have been proud be part of this community for 30 years and raised 3 caring, empathic children in the neighborhood. But the hateful, uncaring comments towards other human beings is offensive. We had urination on the streets, drug dealing, and pan-handling on our streets and in Riverside Park long before our new residents joined the community. And while I am not a DeBlasio fan, I am disappointed that the UWS community would hire an attorney to sue the City, particularly at a time when the City is strapped for cash and the homeless themselves lack the funds to fight back. This new crowd seems to represent the changed values of the UWS community. We can no longer claim to support BLM or attest to supporting diversity. Marching in demonstrations is lip-service, real change is inconvenient and requires effort.
Mook:
“Oh, and how can I forget to mention the bombardment of insults toward members of the Upper West Side community that comes out of the trap of this ordained alleged human named Ian Alterman? Well that is certainly something that someone of the cloth would do: relentlessly insult the local gentry, and try not even for a moment to understand their strife.”
You apparently don’t know your Bible very well. One of the core principles of Judaism is “welcoming the stranger”; showing compassion, acceptance, and love. And, of course, Jesus was all about love, compassion, tolerance, patience, forgiveness – not one quality of which I have seen rom you or others here.
And as far as my “insults” (and setting aside that observation and truth are never “insults”), Jesus Himself had some choice words for some groups, and even told the apostles that if someone will not “receive” His ministry of love, compassion, etc., “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
At least I haven’t threatened you with damnation and hellfire.
“Your Manomaniacally one-sided sympathies, your insults, your immense arrogance as you second-guess people and correct their grammar, is more than anyone needs to know, in order to figure out everything there is to know about you.”
I think you mean monomanical. (Yup, I’m correcting your spelling.) and this would be amusing, were it not such an incorrect word to express what you want to express. You either want “megalomaniacal” or “egotistical.” Maybe you need remedial English? (noting to be ashamed about, but own it.)
As for the rest, your presumptions about me are wildly off-course, as my family, friends, acquaintances and colleagues would tell you. But, as I said, “sticks and stones…”
Feel free to keep on “projecting” your own pathologies onto me if you wish.
Maybe I SHOULD threaten you with damnation and hellfire (lol): but that is not my way.
Ian Alterman: “Maybe you need remedial English? (noting to be ashamed about, but own it.)”
Not for nothing but you made the effort to correct another’s slight spelling typo and make one of your own, with a much easier word. Your own punctuation style is also rather unconventional. People in glass houses…LOL
As an aside, I would infer Mook really did mean ‘monomanical’. You do come across as quite heavily one-track minded in this particular foray.
And yes, of course I realize there is a typo in my own reply. I own it. It happens. It doesn’t take away from what I meant to express. LOL.
Spelling patrol:
I would suggest that EVERYONE here is “monomaniacal” about their own position on this issue, so, yes, it is the pot calling the kettle black – from YOUR side.
Whoa…Ian Alterman — my comment wasn’t from a place of ‘sides’ or pots or kettles. It was about the unnecessary nastiness that enters the conversation (all around) and in this case, ended up directing someone they need a remedial class because of a typo (and then making a typo LOL). You may express many valid points but when they include the barbs of which many of these comments favor, it devolves into to two ‘sides’ pointing fingers and slamming fists instead of trying to find common ground for progress.
Spelling patrol:
Actually, my comment about remedial reading comprehension was not about typos, grammar, punctuation or any other element of writing. It was about the fact that all too many people read what is written, but only “hear” what they want to hear, and end up responding to something that was NOT said. This happens A LOT, particularly on these types of boards. So when I make a comment or statement, I get really annoyed when the response to my comment is not only inaccurate, but is responding to something I never even said.
You specifically call out Mook for his misspelling (manomaniacal) then state he probably meant another word, followed with the suggestion he take a remedial English class. Not sure how anyone could misread anything about that. Regardless, it seems like you need to be right on pretty much everything, even the smallest of comments. Hope you continue to have fun with all your annoyances.
Self-reflection:
“Regardless, it seems like you need to be right on pretty much everything, even the smallest of comments. Hope you continue to have fun with all your annoyances.”
It is not about being “right.” It is about having accurate information and FACTS, as opposed to misinformation. There is a great deal of the latter being spewed by Mook and his ilk, and I will call that out whenever I see it, and provide FACTS, even if they choose (as they do) to ignore those facts in favor of their NIMBY mindset.
Alterman, I wonder if you can control yourself self aggrandizing arrogant personality long enough to actually read what is being written, before qualifying anyone who disagrees with your vomit as a NIMBYer. I have said, over and over, that these hotel rooms could be, and should be used for homeless families, whom I know I would welcome here. But you are obsessed with your good buddies who have lost their ability to function effectively in a society. The people who the department of homeless Services let loose over here need much more supervision than can be provided in the setting of these local hotels. Local residents
should have worry about safety of themselves or their families because an arrogant self-aggrandizing self-righteous lout like yourself wants to be correct.
Mook:
“I have said, over and over, that these hotel rooms could be, and should be used for homeless families, whom I know I would welcome here. But you are obsessed with your good buddies who have lost their ability to function effectively in a society.”
Wow! What a noble, compassionate comment! Families are okay, but not individuals. How incredibly heart-warming! You really are a piece of work, and you don’t even see it.
“The people who the department of homeless Services let loose over here need much more supervision than can be provided in the setting of these local hotels.”
Not true. The providers at the hotels are actually providing much more robust services than they do at the congregate shelters. So, if anything, the residents are getting MORE and BETTER services. You really should arm yourself with FACTS rather than the inaccurate misinformation you spew.
“Local residents should have worry about safety of themselves or their families because an arrogant self-aggrandizing self-righteous lout like yourself wants to be correct.”
I assume you meant “‘not’ have to worry. (See, my reading comprehension is pretty good.) And if you or your family is worried, maybe you should consider facts instead of feelings. Crime on the UWS is DOWN, and has been most of the year. The only arrests of hotel homeless were for property crimes, not crimes against persons: not one single hotel resident has been accused of, much less arrested for, anything that you seem “fearful” of. Conditions around the Belleclaire and Lucerne are now completely calm, so you are talking about conditions that existed over two weeks ago.
What, exactly, are you or your family “afraid” of? I know plenty of young families with children who have told me they have not felt any concern at all since the hotel homeless moved in. So for you or every family that is claiming some sort of “fear” or “concern,” there are families that do not share those concerns and feel perfectly safe – because they actually know the facts, and because they do not come from a “place of fear,” which you and others seem to do.
Re posts by Ian Alterman, “Mook,” and Annette
I have found “Mook’s” postings so offensive and his hostility directed not only to Mr. Alterman, but anyone who doesn’t share his hateful posts, and his vicious attacks. I align myself with Annette; the UWS’ers that have shown total lack of compassion and used their money to get rid of the “vermin” totally foreign to me, unrecognizable as the UWS I lived in for 27 years. It’s been extremely painful to witness. Mook, your postings betray you, Having opinions is one thing, but describing the homeless living at Lucerne Alterman’s “darlings” is so wilding inaccurate and vicious that you’re saying a lot more about yourself the you are Alterman. It was soul-restoring to read Annette’s post. The homeless ARE all our problem, just as surviving this pandemic affects everyone, but not equally. Those who are affluent have been able to survive this horror with far less discomfort than those without money. Just look at the emptying out of the UES! Those who could afford to simply decamped to the second homes they can afford to own.
I hope they move the residents to a place that has all of the services they need on site. Dumping them in hotels for self comfort was a Big Injustice to these vulnerable men and women. With a cover of Compassion Helen Rosenthal and her cronies spread Hate and Division amongst the UWS. Shame on her and her twisted group for using racism and white privilege to tell us to Shut Up and Take It. I’ve spoken to the Security Guards. So I know all the drug dealing going on inside The Lucerne. I’ve patrolled with Guardian Angels. So I see the many acts of crime, pissing and defecating on the streets in front of people. I’ve been part of groups that have picked up the excessive garbage on our streets. So I’ve seen the crack, and heroin viles and needles. This has only been since July when they dunped nearly 300 men into the hotel in the middle of the night. As a matter of fact they dis the same thing at every hotel. Why use the cover of darkness and not the daytime? Money. Corruption and Money
Brian:
“I hope they move the residents to a place that has all of the services they need on site.”
Let me try this again. Here are the FACTS, which were true from Day 1:
“There are 50 full-time employees, providing social services and the like. Among them are two program directors (8 am to 4 pm) and a supervisor (4-12 and 12-8). Also regularly on site are two VPs of Project Renewal, and even the COO and CEO. (The CEO lives just a few blocks from the hotel.)
“Residents are served three “no contact” meals per day. There are six daily “wellness checks” of every resident (they are required to be in their rooms and answer their door), including two during which their temperature is taken. Anyone suspected of having Covid symptoms is immediately removed from the hotel to a quarantine location. Each resident also has an on-site case manger who is responsible for working on their various cases (e.g., obtaining IDs, obtaining benefits like SS and Medicaire/Medicaid, occupational therapy, and finding work and/or permanent housing).
“With regard to health care, Project Renewal has a Chief Medical Officer who has been with them for over a decade and is a psychiatrist; a Medical Director of Primary Care; a Medical Director of Psychiatry (who was a supervisor at Bellevue); a Medical Director of Addiction Medicine and Drug User Health (who was previously the Clinical Director of Substance Use Treatment at Rikers Island); and a Medical Director of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. Each of these directors provides direct clinical services in addition to their supervisory roles. There is also a nurse on site, as well as a mobile health van that comes to the building two or three times per week, so ongoing health care is available to all residents..”
So, in fact, the residents have been getting MORE and BETTER services than they get at the congregate shelters.
“I’ve patrolled with Guardian Angels. So I see the many acts of crime, pissing and defecating on the streets in front of people. I’ve been part of groups that have picked up the excessive garbage on our streets. So I’ve seen the crack, and heroin viles and needles. This has only been since July when they dunped nearly 300 men into the hotel in the middle of the night.”
Nope. First, it is simply not true that these conditions did not exist prior to the homeless residents moving into the hotels. They did. Second, you are leaving out a critical fact: when the MTA closed the subways, all of the homeless who lived down there were forced to the surface, DOUBLING the number of “street” homeless. In this regard, it was sheer coincidence that this occurred just days prior to the moving of the homeless into the hotels. So what was REALLY happening is that the STREET homeless were exacerbating the problems at the same time that the hotel homeless were moving in.
That is why I am sadly confident that the conditions will NOT improve all that much if the hotel homeless are forced out. Because the street homeless will remain. After all, why would the hotel homeless urinate or defecate in the street when they have perfectly good bathrooms just a block or two from where they may be sitting? They wouldn’t. But the street homeless now have nowhere to go, since the bathrooms at libraries, public toilets, and Starbucks are all closed to them.
Same thing with drugs. Yes, some of the hotel homeless have culpability here. But it is almost certainly MORE to do with the street homeless.
This is why arguments like yours and Mook’s, which are based on a lack of or inaccurate information, are so mean-spirited. You conflate the street homeless with the hotel homeless, and blame everything on the latter – even though it not only does not make any logical sense, but also because neither you nor Mook nor anyone else would know which was which unless you carried a book of photos of the hotel homeless and could match a person you see doing those things with a face in such a book.
Enforce all Fair Housing & Public Accommodations Laws.
Bravo to Ian, Public Advocate, CM Helen, etc they tried to help humankind remain alive.
Some UWS folks are nasty, remember the ugly Central Park ‘Karen’ dog incident the false accusation? Fearful are blaming, targeting the less fortunate few with their lawyers then anxiously evicting people during a global plague and solemn holy season? ”There but for the Grace of G_d goes”?
A quick thought from California. I’ve always found New Yorkers to be loudmouths and NYC little more than a (sh)it-hole. To hell with the place.
To whom it may concern:
Monomaniacal is indeed a word.
Mook:
Another example of your need for remedial reading comprehension. I did NOT say that “monomaniacal” was NOT a word. I said it was the WRONG word for what you were trying to express, and I continue to believe that.
So sad that the money was raised in opposition instead of support! Perhaps the Privileged will donate the fund to help the homeless beings instead fight them. Now they are being moved up to the Bronx family shelters displacing families. I don’t suppose Privileged would be okay with struggling homeless families either. Very, very sad.
If anyone knows what Privileged is doing with the money I’d be interested to hear an update!
THIS WAS ALL ABOUT MONEY…HOW MUCH OUR USELESS MAYOR WOULD PAY TO THE OWNER/LANDLORD…ITS ABOUT TIME THEY WERE CALLED OUT AND THAT THIS IS BEING RESOLVED…THIS WAS ALL ABOUT MNEY IN POCKETS…
HERE IS AN IDEA…GOVERNORS’S ISLAND IS A PERFECT SPOT!! PLENTY OF EMPTY HOUSING SO USE IT….
Brian:
“You gave them $5 gift cards to Walgreens to buy beer. LMAO! Good going Enabler”
That is just hopelessly cynical thinking. It has no basis in fact, nor could you prove that. Nice try, though.
Sarah:
Thank you for your kind post, and your defense of me. I appreciate it. However, I would add here that people like Mook rarely “offend” me with their insults and malice. Rather, I find people like him amusing, if saddening. That is why I bother to respond to him (and his ilk) at all. Partly because my raison d’etre throughout this situation has been to provide accurate, neutral information in an attempt to inform. If people would rather NOT be informed, or arm themselves with inaccurate information, that is, of course, their prerogative. And the other reason I respond to him is because I know it just drives him deeper into his malice and inhumanity, thus, as you note, revealing HIMSELF in the process. I am glad there are people who see that.
You and Annette deserve medals for commenting here. It is wildly ironic that a board called “I Love the Upper West Side” would be filled with NIMBYs and barely closeted racists. How sad.
Karma:
“Enforce all Fair Housing & Public Accommodations Laws.”
the Fair Housing Amendments Act and the consent decree that rose from Callahan v. Carey would prevent any moving of the homeless from the hotels back into congregate shelters. That is why Mastro’s deal with the mayor was to play “whack-a-mole” and move one group of homeless from one building to another, move another group into that building, and move another group into the next building.
However, there are still laws that protect the homeless at the hotels, and the fat lady has not even BEGUN to sing yet.
Bravo to Ian, Public Advocate, CM Helen, etc they tried to help humankind remain alive.”
Thank you.
“Some UWS folks are nasty, remember the ugly Central Park ‘Karen’ dog incident the false accusation? Fearful are blaming, targeting the less fortunate few with their lawyers then anxiously evicting people during a global plague and solemn holy season? ”There but for the Grace of G_d goes”?”
All true. And don’t forget the Central Park 5. Yes, some people NEED a scapegoat, and the hotel homeless are an easy target. As I have said ad nauseam, most people are conflating the street homeless with the hotel homeless. But it is so much easier to target all the people in a single place than to look for the read problem.
🙁
UWS Mom:
Thank you for your comment. I want to add something that will sounds really odd to the NIMBT crowd here.
Many here know “Karl,” the man who lives on the Broadway mall median at 79th Street. He is a mildly mentally ill alcoholic. His M.O. is that he fuels himself with alcohol and “rages at the world.” This can be “scary” to some people, even though he never “attacks” any individual. most of the time, however, he sleeps, or hangs out with friends on the median.
Another UWS mom told me the other day that her two school-aged kids love the guy. That when they are walking from school to the park for soccer practice, they stop and say hello and chat with him. They say he is calm, kind and friendly.
I, too, have spoken with him on occasion. As an aside, I have never been afraid of him because I have known that he was actually harmless. He is always polite, and can be very engaging when he has not been drinking. He passed by my table the other day when I was having dinner, and asked – very politely – if I had a cigarette. i told him that I don’t smoke. He was disappointed, but smiled at me and said, “probably better not to.” I have heard similar stories from others.
But to the NIMBY types, he is simply a mentally ill alcoholic who is “dangerous.”
Sad.
Misha: ” It’s *Misha first and foremost.”
Mu apologies for misspelling your name.
“Secondly it’s not ignorant to say some of the homeless that are on our wondering the Upper West Side streets are from the relocation. It’s ignorant to think they all are just “street” homeless.”
Okay, perhaps ignorant was a strong word. However, it remains wishful thinking on your part because you cannot possibly KNOW, and despite your comment, logic and common sense are NOT on your side on this.
“Good you’re actually trying to help I’m genuinely happy to hear that. However could be a better help if you stop going back and forth with people on this forum and spend that time finding proper placement for all the “street” homeless.”
The two are not mutually exclusive.
“Thirdly I never claimed to be making an effort to help the homeless. My plight it with animal welfare and environmentalism which I spent a lot of time volunteering at shelters and rehabilitation centers, going to protest and working with organizations to spread awareness and also traveling to Australia and through East Asia to work hands on with endangered animals.”
I,. too, am fervent environmentalist, so I applaud your efforts.
“As a man of the church you shouldn’t be wasting precious time and energy arguing over semantics.”
Again, I can do many things at one time, including comment here and also be active in working on behalf of the homeless. And you, like Mook and others, need to be much more careful about claiming what you believe “people of the cloth” should and should not be doing. Jesus spent quite some time arguing semantics with some people of His day. So there is nothing un-clothy about it,.
Thank you Ian for the apology.
Yes I think it is strong. I think you’re passionate about this issue and your emotions are blinding you to certain things, my opinion is not nonsensical in the least. I’m sure many would side with me on that but you’re entitled to your opinion and I’ll just agree to disagree. Anyway whether the homeless that are in the neighborhood are from the hotel or just street homeless, it is an issue. Many of these people struggle with drug addiction and mental instability and pose a threat to our safety, I very much want these people to get the help they need and a place for them to rest their heads. I just think they should be place in a facility that will have curb their addictions and work through their metal afflictions. I think it’s fair to want to feel safe in my area and not at risk of getting robbed or raped and women of great or little means I think will agree with me on that.
Thank you i appreciate it, I am glad you work with environmentalism as well.
Fair enough. That wasn’t what I was saying, I was saying that your efforts could be put to better use than going back and forth on this forum… it’ll do you and the homeless little to no good. You could be using your energy to push your point somewhere to has an actual impact, there are better platforms. I truly wish you all the best in your efforts to help and hope you do find a solution that will be good for everyone’s safety homeless or not.
Misha:
Thank you for your measured response. I continue to believe that you are conflating two things, but I agree with all of the rest – including specifically that street homelessness has become an even greater issue. This began in the two or three years before Covid (for reasons I have not been able to find), and became wildly exacerbated when the MTA shut down the subway and forced all of those homeless into the streets. It is the fact that this coincidentally occurred at the same time that the City was beginning to move homeless into the hotels that caused so many to conflate the two. And my “point” has always been that I am concerned about that conflation – not that homelessness, the conditions that stem from it, is not an issue.
That said, I would simply reply again that doing more than one thing is not mutually exclusive. Despite how it may seem, I don’t spend all that much time here on the boards. My days are filled with working on the issue.
And I would add that it is almost sad that ALL of us are spending time on this issue (though it is a real one that affects our daily lives locally) when we should ALL be spending ALOT more time on the issue of climate change and the environment. In fact, I just finished Greta Thunberg’s book and was hugely impressed and inspired by it. And am embarrassed that she is doing more on this issue at 16 than we are as adults.